Sunday as first weekday, how can glibc be wrong?

It all happened after Sabayon bug 2699, and I am still laughing so hard.
Everybody in Italy knows at least two things: who is Silvio Berlusconi and what is the first weekday. I cannot guarantee on the rest, though.
But of course, glibc asserts that the second pillar of the Italian knowledge is just… wrong. For it and Ulrich Drepper the first weekday is Sunday and no matter what the fuck you think, say, write: as long as you don’t have the proof of it being Monday, you will live with the bug.

It seems that drepper has more power than our Prime Minister and his escorts all together when it’s about picking the first weekday! woot!

About lxnay

the creator of Sabayon Linux, Entropy Package Manager {Eit, Equo, Rigo}, Molecule release media buildsystem, Matter Portage buildbot/tinderbox and only God knows what else...

32 responses to “Sunday as first weekday, how can glibc be wrong?

  1. James

    Sunday is the traditional first day of the week in most countries; it’s a leftover from Christian times.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_of_the_week

      • James

        “Greco-Roman tradition
        The earliest attestation of a seven day week associated with heavenly luminaries are from Vettius Valens, an astrologer writing ca 170 AD in his Anthologiarum. The order was Sun, Moon, Ares, Hermes, Zeus, Aphrodite, and Cronos. From Greece the planetary week names passed to the Romans, and from Latin to other languages of southern and western Europe, and to other languages later influenced by them.”

        … I don’t think that you’re right, unfortunately.

    • “By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work” … the 7th day is sunday, the day to rest and pray god!
      We count like this in Italy, from monday to sunday, but probably we are wrong, otherwise how could we have such a prime minister?

      • The seventh day was Saturday, which is why the Jews have their sabbath on Saturday.

        The Romans basically decided that it would be much simpler if the Christians rested on Sundays, because then the Sun-worshippers and the Christians would have the same day off.

        This is common knowledge.

        However, the “first day of the week” is locale specific, and therefore there SHOULD be some way of specifying it.

      • Rohan Palmer

        hey remember that it was Constantine (The Great) former Roman Emperor who had changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday in 321 a.d. and made Christianity the state religion of Rome. Some religious scholars believe that it was in fulfilment of Daniel’s prophecy – see Daniel 7:25 in the Holy Bible

    • Thomas

      Monday is also the first day of the week in France.

      You should read more thoroughly your wikipedia article because the first big table with all the translated names doesn’t indicate that all these countries consider Sunday as first day of the week. It is obviously the editors’ choice to keep all the names in 7 columns and to start at Sunday because that’s what English people expect.

      Even though the ISO 8601 norm is cited, there is no list detailing which countries are using which day as first day. Your assertion about “most countries” will need another information source.

    • you should go to work on Sunday then because “week-end” is the Saturday for you.

  2. huh? May I have the right to know what is the first weekday in my country?

    • M

      Don’t let yourself be baffled. In the Islamic and Hebrew calendars, Sunday is indeed the first day of the week.

      But most (at least I don’t know a country where it isn’t like that, but that does not need to mean anything😉 ) western countries follow the ISO standard, which says Monday is the first day of the week. The USA/Canada and some other countries prefer to follow the religious traditions so they use Sunday.

      And there are even regions, where it is Saturday.

      • زياد

        I don’t know where did you get your information from, but that is not correct!

        In a lot of Islamic countries Saturday is the first day of the week (as in: the first workday, and thus the first day of the week); since Friday is the holiday–of–the–week, and the next week starts afterward. (And yes, I’m a Muslim who lives in an Islamic country where the the first day of the week (where we go to schools, colleges, and work) is Saturday).

        (Either what I just wrote, or I didn’t understand the discussion, and in such case my apologize.)

        Ziyad.

      • M

        Hi زياد

        sorry for answering on my own post. But the blog software does not allow me to answer to your question.

        I got that information from different Wikipedia articles. Like [1] “In the Arabic language, as in the Hebrew language, the “first day” of the week corresponds with Sunday of the planetary week.” or [2] “According to the Islamic and Hebrew calendars, Sunday is the first day of the week.”.

        I surely didn’t want to upset you. So despite of any of us being wrong or right, we can simply agree on the fact that there are many interpretations on what’s the first day of the week and glibc should not simply assume the rest of the world follows US-standards. And that’s the main topic here, right?🙂

        Greetings

        [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_calendar
        [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monday

      • زياد

        Hi M…

        No harm done. And thanks for your politeness.

        About the two articles (or more accurately, quotations; I didn’t read the articles): Both are wrong regarding Islamic calendar! Either Saturday or Friday that could be considered the first day of the week.

        Friday: because it’s to Islam what Sunday is to Christianity and Saturday to Judaism. Thus, to Muslims, it is the holiest day of the week.

        Saturday: because after you finish your weekend (and please pay attention to the “end” part of word “weekend”), a new week “starts”. Hence, Saturday is the first day of the week.

        I’m 36 years old, and I have never seen an Arabic calendar that starts with Sunday. All the Arabic calendars I saw start with Saturday. Maybe it exist in Christan–Arabs communities calendars that start with Sunday, but I never saw one.

        (No, I will not edit the article on WikiPedia! I have my private/personal reasons.)

        Once more, thank you.
        Ziyad.

  3. On the English course I was taught to strange things that:
    Tomato is a fruit;
    Sunday is the first day of the week as far as for the English country.
    And do not question that speaking in English language if You do not want to be taken as crazy person. It’s like using word fingers for toes and trying to enforce it to others.
    On some sermon I from the internet they showed European Calendar as the weird stuff: Week Beginning in Monday.

    Roman Catholic Church Priest or Pope also will say that Sunday is first day of the liturgical week.
    Jews Seventh Day count as Sabbath from Friday Sun set till Saturday sunset, so the DayTime is from Suturday.
    Months: I suppose April was the begining of Something, and October was 8th month, {Octo-*} December tenth {Dec-*}

    And normal people count as God, last day for as is for rest and it is Weekend who glued together Saturday and Sunday.
    I do not suppose that there are iso norms other than bits representation and not order, and display can be at choice.

  4. Andy

    Well, the original reporter in the fedora bug did even take the time to look up sevel “proofs” as requested by “Mr. glibc” Drepper, including the European directive which indeed is the mandatory document regarding the issue. The same directive which regulates the week starting day in Ulrichs (and my) country of birth, Germany. At least he fixed it for Germany to start on monday – probably because he knew it was right.
    He might have changed his mind because he now lives in California, where Sunday is the day of choice.

  5. Richard

    It is a periodic thing, so there is first or last day, but as far as depictions go, Sunday is the correct day.

  6. The first weekday depends on the region, maybe represented with the locale you using, you are living in. There is no right or wrong.

    The calculation of calendar weeks depends as well on the first day of the week and is different in some countries.

  7. Let me repeat it once again. Sunday as first weekday in it_IT is *WRONG* !

  8. Latvian dude

    I can confirm GNOME3 calendar thinks Sunday is the first day of week for Latvia as well (it’s actually Monday). Good thing I already got the clue that GNOME3 will fix what GNOME2 didn’t and bring us the true and correct Windows bugs and lags.., sorry, I meant, experience. In other words, I’m ditching GNOME3 for good and not looking back.

  9. bluejayofevil

    I can’t speak for other countries, but Monday is the first *weekday* here in the U.S.
    Sunday is the first *day* of the week, but Saturday and Sunday are considered *weekends*, not weekdays.

  10. This seems to be _the ultimate_ bikeshedding question😀

  11. well, i think both gnome and kde DE can adjust this little detail, what day is the first day in a week … in kde it is for sure in system settings -> Locale settings -> Calendar and there is a drop down menu where you can set the first day of the week … every time i do a fresh linux install i make this localization adjustments, and for this i do not need to modify glibc internals …

    for /usr/share/i18n/locales/it_IT wrong settings maybe is not glibc team fault but can be official standard iso wrong! because is an international standard if iso standard is wrong then glibc must implement the wrong solution until the official standard is fixed!

    dumb and stupid but if an official iso standard can’t be fixed then how can somebody expect that a common agreement can be used only for glibc package? the poor guy, ulrich, will change that only after some official documentation to support that for italians first day of the week is monday … no official documentation, no official standards, no changes of wrong glibc i18n it_IT settings …

    and is true that for most european countries first day of dull work is the monday, no doubt for that, sunday is the last day not the first day!

  12. Carnë Draug

    Well, in Portugal the second day is Monday (and therefore Sunday must be the first). That is embedded in the language in such a way that the words Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday are the words for second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth.

  13. Timothy

    Well, Italy is part of Europe. And in North, South America, Britain, Europe, the Middle East and countries that were formerly part of the British Empire or the Francophonie, Sunday is the first day of the week. (I know, I know, the ISO decided about 20 years ago to make the Western “work week” the “standard” week, and this was even ridiculously made law in some places–I’m not sure why the ISO didn’t choose Tuesday: after all, barber shops and museums are closed on Monday, so those peoples’ work week begins on Tuesday–the ISO isn’t so “standard” after all.) So, yes, whoever those two people are who realize that Sunday is the first day of the week are right. Perhaps you’re thinking not of Italy, or of one of those parts of the world that have a seven-day week beginning with Sunday, but rather of China. The Chinese week does indeed begin (as far as I know) with Monday as the first day of the week.

    • Thomas

      “A picture is worth a thousand words.”
      Napoleon Bonaparte

      These are two French calendars of 1939, clearly delimiting the weeks as beginning on Monday (L for Lundi) and finishing on Sunday (D for Dimanche):

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